Sanjay Jha at Idea Exchange: ‘Nitish got everyone together… but there was no movement, the kind envisioned by him, in INDIA alliance’

Deeptiman Tiwary: When the JDU-NDA alliance broke in 2022, Nitish Kumar said that the BJP was trying to break his party. He was with the INDIA bloc then and in fact canvassing for them. Why did he join the NDA again?

During the 2020 Assembly elections, there was some confusion within the alliance. Even some people in our party who were contesting, after the result, said that there was confusion. With the INDIA alliance, I was moving around with Nitish Kumar from day one. When he left the NDA alliance, there had been a change in Maharashtra (where the Maha Vikas Aghadi government fell). Within 20 days, a change happened in Bihar (where the NDA government fell). After that, Nitish Kumar and Lalu Prasad Yadav went to meet Sonia Gandhi. But not a single photo of the meet was released on behalf of Sonia Gandhi. It was an important development that they were back in the government in Bihar (after being ousted in Maharashtra months ago).

If anyone had a role in stitching together the INDIA alliance, it was Nitish Kumar. When there was a meeting at Mallikarjun Kharge’s house, all Congress leaders were present, including Rahul Gandhi. They gave a list of people and states where they said they were not comfortable (talking about an alliance). Nitishji said that everyone would fight together and only then would something happen. Wherever he went, be it Delhi, West Bengal or Odisha, they had a view to have an alliance without the Congress. He insisted in all these meetings that ‘no alliance against the NDA or BJP will be possible without the Congress’. He got everyone together.

There was a meeting in Bengaluru. Then he organised and got everyone in Patna at his house. It was a difficult task getting everybody together. Arvind Kejriwal’s agenda then was more about a Bill related to Delhi in the Parliament. Our larger agenda was to fight the next parliamentary elections. He didn’t even stay for the press conference. Then in the Bangalore meeting, the name INDIA was suddenly announced. Nitish Kumar strongly opposed the name in that meeting.

 

Then there was a meeting in Mumbai. Among other broader agendas for the election, Nitish Kumar asked for a caste census, like the one done in Bihar, which is the only state to do so. One ally opposed it. The Congress also backed out, saying they will take it up later. Then there was a meeting in Delhi. There were elections in Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh and Nitishji suggested that alliance partners should contest a few seats in these states to display a united Opposition. They made a promise but backed out. There was no movement, the kind envisioned by Nitish Kumar , in that alliance. RJD and JDU anyway are not a natural alliance. So, we decided to walk out.

Deeptiman Tiwary: But Nitish Kumar has done this several times – with the RJD in 2015, then he went to the BJP, then the RJD. When the citizens see your party’s flip-flop attitude, they get confused about your party. Is this decision-making also guided by people’s voice?

Yes, there have been flip-flops. Ultimately, the public votes only decide if the stand you took was right or wrong. We fought the Lok Sabha elections but the narrative of ‘the Constitution is in danger’ didn’t have any effect in Bihar. We won 30 seats out of 40. In the recent bypolls in four seats, three were with the Opposition. We had only one. But we won all four. One of the seats (Belaganj) was where we hadn’t won in 35 years. For the last 25 years, Nitishji has been the fulcrum of Bihar politics.

On mosque petetions | There are far larger issues in the country. We should avoid such matters as much as possible. If a court passes an order, that’s a different matter. But everyone wants peace in society

Deeptiman Tiwary: The BJP is criticised for weakening its allies. Is there no existential threat that the BJP will do the same with your party?

They can’t do it. JDU’s identity is different. The people of Bihar have seen Nitishji work over so many years. He has been the longest-serving CM. JDU’s ideology is different. The PM recently said that parties like the Samajwadi Party (SP) have become nepotistic and after Ram Manohar Lohia and George Fernandes, Nitish Kumar is the true socialist. Neither is he nepotistic nor is there any other charge against him. He had a difficult legacy to carry on and due to the work he has done, there is no threat to the party.

Rajya Sabha MP Sanjay Jha

Deeptiman Tiwary: Is the party prepared for a post-Nitish Kumar era?

We are fighting the 2025 Assembly elections under his leadership. What’s in the future, we can’t say. We will see what to do when the need arises.

Manoj CJ: Looking at what happened in Maharashtra, if the BJP gets more seats in the 2025 Assembly elections, are you apprehensive that Nitish might have to become the Deputy CM and a BJP minister will become the CM?

The BJP never questioned Nitish’s CMship. On the contrary, after the 2020 elections, he told them to make their minister the CM. They didn’t agree because Nitish’s face was known to people before the election. He is the face of this NDA. We never had a problem. They were the ones who proposed to make Nitishji the CM after the election. Also, we’ve had a long association as an ally.

Manoj CJ: The socialist stream in India has taken a position against communalism. Doesn’t your ideology get diluted when the PM makes ‘mangalsutra’ statements and incidents like Sambhal happen and the JDU remains silent?

The parties taking a stand are not from the socialist stream. They are family-run. We are running the government for the last 19 years in Bihar, and most of those years have been with the BJP. There was never a day of curfew in that time, except for one day in Nawada. There is something the government is doing, despite being with the BJP. The government has even worked for the welfare of Muslims. Riots took place in Bhagalpur in 1989. They (RJD) had a government for 15 years, no justice was done. Nitishji came to power, a commission was instituted and people involved in the riots were punished and victims were compensated. That is Nitish Kumar’s track record in Bihar. There is no dilution on that stand.

Deeptiman Tiwary: If tomorrow someone creates a controversy related to a Muslim monument in Bihar, what will be your reaction?

JDU and Nitish Kumar’s stand on this is public. He will stand with justice.

Vikas Pathak: Do you think that a unified INDIA alliance based on ideology could have come together as an Opposition to the BJP?

We tried. Nitishji tried. He travelled all across the country, spoke to everyone and used his credibility. But there was no power in the Congress. They don’t have it, this leadership doesn’t have it.

Rajya Sabha MP Sanjay Jha

P Vaidyanathan Iyer: What does the JDU think about the Places of Worship Act? Do you think it is okay if this keeps happening. Will it affect your alliance?

There are far larger issues in the country. We should avoid such matters as much as possible. If a court passes an order, that’s a different matter. But everyone wants peace in society.

Asad Rahman: The government’s ‘one nation, one election’ proposal is touted to affect regional parties. Why did your party support it?

Nitishji has supported it from the beginning. I went with Lalan Singh to the Ram Nath Kovind Committee. Every two months, there are elections. After by-elections, work is stopped in four districts. We said that the Parliament and Assembly should be together but Panchayat should have separate elections. This will reduce costs and save time. It is in the larger interest of the country. Mechanisms will have to be tweaked. But we have always supported it. The country is always in election mode.

Asad Rahman: Will the amendments in the Waqf Bill affect Muslims, and in turn, hurt JDU in Bihar?

Nitish Kumar has always said, ‘I have worked for all. Let them vote or not’. The Waqf amendment is not happening for the first time. When this Bill came, it went to the Joint Parliamentary Committee. They spoke to us as well. People from different Muslim Waqf Boards and institutions then met with the CM. I, too, was there. The CM asked them that the objections should be put forth logically, and we take it forward. We are waiting for their objections. Once we get them, we will find a way to resolve them.

Vikas Pathak: What initiatives do you have for the youths and their employment in Bihar?

The CM said that we will give jobs to 12 lakh youths. We have conducted several recruitment drives. But we have been saying for a long time that unless we get investment in Bihar, how will we generate employment? Now there is support from the Centre. Bihar didn’t even have the basics. Nirmala Sitharaman toured the state and said Bihar’s village roads are one of the best in the country. We are hoping to get some investment which I hope will generate employment.

On JDU-BJP ideologies | We are two different parties. If we agreed on all the topics, then we would have been one party. We are together on the larger issues like development. There are definitely some ideological differences

Yashee: You said JDU and RJD cadre don’t gel well. So, do the cadre of the BJP, which has communal rhetoric, and the JDU, which doesn’t, work well together?

We are two different parties. If we agreed on all the topics, then we would have been one party. The BJP has played a part in bringing transformation in Bihar along with Nitishji. We are together on the larger issues like development. There are definitely some ideological differences.

Deeptiman Tiwary: How much of an issue is migration for the JDU and how does it plan to arrest it?

It is indeed a challenge. Unless job opportunities are not created in Bihar, migration will happen. Who would want to leave home for a Rs 2,000-4,000 job? However, migration has also reduced. Several CMs have said that they are facing problems due to decreased migration. Unless we set up industry, we won’t be able to tackle it.

Ritika Chopra: Mohan Bhagawat advocated three children for every family. Looking at Bihar’s population and economic problems, does this advice align well with your own development needs and challenges?

Nitish Kumar has given a thrust to women’s education. The impact is that Bihar’s fertility rate has come down to 2.4 from four. Bihar is the first state to give 50 per cent reservation to women in Panchayat elections. Most women police personnel are in Bihar. Close to 1,40,000 women are involved with JEEViKA self-help groups. From rural areas, so many of them have been assimilated into the banking system.

 

P Vaidyanathan Iyer: You are not able to properly implement prohibition and it also hits you fiscally. There are hooch tragedies. Do you think you need to review it further?

Hooch tragedies happen in states where there is no prohibition. Women had appealed to the government (to ban alcohol) because it became a huge menace. The decision was based on their appeal. It has had a huge impact in rural areas with things like domestic violence. There is an open border with many states and Nepal and you can get alcohol from there. The law is also not so stringent; only people who are involved (in illicit sale) are implicated.

Vandita Mishra: There is a lack of urban policy imagination in Bihar. Muzzaffarpur is said to be a smart city but you find water logging in so many streets. Lakes and water bodies are drying in Darbhanga. The airport in Darbhanga is so small that people get chairs to sit outside it. When will Nitish Kumar look at cities and towns?

A lot of work has been done in Patna. You’ll see a lot of flyovers there. Bihar government’s focus is now on urban centres. Under the UDAAN scheme, I think the most successful airport is Darbhanga Airport. Earlier, there was a stop-gap arrangement. It was made of fibre and work was going on outside. Now that the money has been sanctioned, work has been allotted and we have begun to build a terminal building, which will be ready in two years. There’s a lot of potential to work in the urban sector.

Raj Kamal Jha: Is there a space for a Jan Suraaj Party in Bihar?

Nitishji has worked for Bihar. He also has a family. But he has not played dynasty politics. If you suddenly come to Bihar (and announce a party), I don’t see a lot of potential there. It is easy to say. But when you indulge and work, it is different.

Deeptiman Tiwary: Tejaswi (Yadav) is said to have helped the RJD to shed some of that negative image related to his father, which has worked as a shot in the arm in the form of support from new sections. RJD’s vote share has increased.

Absolutely not. His supporters are the same people (who supported Lalu). It is the same culture (as was during father’s time). Lok Sabha and by-elections reflect their situation. I don’t think there is any attraction towards the RJD among the public.

Deeptiman Tiwary: What makes you confident about the 2025 Assembly elections?

Bihar voters are very smart. They are sensing that for first time Bihar is seeing this double-engine government working. So, they will not miss this chance. They want Nitish and there is support from the Centre. Therefore, it is working on the ground.